Spss vs Stata

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Spss vs Stata

Yves Therriault
Dear Stata users,

I've been using SPSS for 20 years. For the time being, I still use a
six years old version of SPSS (12.01). For many reasons, I told my
organisation that I would rather purchasing one licence of Stata
instead of upgrading to the newest release of SPSS (18.0).

A few months ago, I've asked former SPSS users to write about their
experience with Stata. Generally, people who have decided to switch
from SPSS to Stata aren't looking back.

In order to learn the basics of Stata more easily when the software is
installed on my computer, I bought 3 introductory books : A Gentle
Introduction to Stata ; An Introduction to Stata for Health
Researchers and, finally Data Analysis Using Stata.

I'm interested to hear from those who made the switch to Stata and
particularly about the lurning curve regarding the management of Stata
output. Generally, Stata seems to be far more superior to SPSS in many
ways. But, in my humble opinion, Stata is currently far behind SPSS
concerning how it displays its output. I'm aware that a lot of
routines have been written by Stata users to customize outputs though.

Just in case Stata programmers were monitoring this list, I would be
very pleased if the company decided to "improve" the output display in
a future release. Perhaps, another possible feature would gave the
user the choice between a "standard" Stata output and a Spss-like
output.

Of course, I don't intent to start a controversy here.  Maybe I'm just
an "old SPSS user" who is a little bit afraid to have to learn a new
syntax ! : - )

Finally, I just want tell you all how much I appreciate this list.
This is a very nice and vibrant community. I'm sure that I will learn
a lot from Stata experts as soon as I start using the software.

Kind regards,

Yves (Province de Québec)

P.S. Sorry for the bad English. I write in English just once in a while.

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Re: Spss vs Stata

Michael N. Mitchell
Dear Yves

   I think that you validly raise an issue where SPSS is more advanced that Stata... it
has many capabilities with respect to displaying output that Stata does not have. The
areas that come to my mind are 1) output that is formatted in such a way that you can
paste it right into a word document, 2) pivot tables and such, and 3) the statistical and
graphic output is integrated together. On the other hand, I think that there is much to
like about the way that you can work with Stata output that makes it superior to Stata.
The two areas that come to my mind are...

   1) You can easily take Stata output and transfer it to LaTeX for creating publication
quality output. You can see more about this at...

http://www.ats.ucla.edu/stat/stata/latex/default.htm

   2) You can capture the results of Stata commands and store the results as a dataset and
then summarize the results of many analysis in a very compact format. There are many
examples of this, one such example is shown here...

   http://www.michaelnormanmitchell.com/stow/posting-results-regression.html

   Even though the SPSS output is "prettier", the Stata method of handling output is
ultimately more powerful and gives you more control. However, it would be nice if the
output from Stata could (optionally) be pretty (like SPSS) as well as powerful.

   I hope that helps.... and, welcome to the list!

Best regards,

Michael N. Mitchell
Data Management Using Stata      - http://www.stata.com/bookstore/dmus.html
A Visual Guide to Stata Graphics - http://www.stata.com/bookstore/vgsg.html
Stata tidbit of the week         - http://www.MichaelNormanMitchell.com



On 2010-08-01 5.04 PM, Yves Therriault wrote:

> Dear Stata users,
>
> I've been using SPSS for 20 years. For the time being, I still use a
> six years old version of SPSS (12.01). For many reasons, I told my
> organisation that I would rather purchasing one licence of Stata
> instead of upgrading to the newest release of SPSS (18.0).
>
> A few months ago, I've asked former SPSS users to write about their
> experience with Stata. Generally, people who have decided to switch
> from SPSS to Stata aren't looking back.
>
> In order to learn the basics of Stata more easily when the software is
> installed on my computer, I bought 3 introductory books : A Gentle
> Introduction to Stata ; An Introduction to Stata for Health
> Researchers and, finally Data Analysis Using Stata.
>
> I'm interested to hear from those who made the switch to Stata and
> particularly about the lurning curve regarding the management of Stata
> output. Generally, Stata seems to be far more superior to SPSS in many
> ways. But, in my humble opinion, Stata is currently far behind SPSS
> concerning how it displays its output. I'm aware that a lot of
> routines have been written by Stata users to customize outputs though.
>
> Just in case Stata programmers were monitoring this list, I would be
> very pleased if the company decided to "improve" the output display in
> a future release. Perhaps, another possible feature would gave the
> user the choice between a "standard" Stata output and a Spss-like
> output.
>
> Of course, I don't intent to start a controversy here.  Maybe I'm just
> an "old SPSS user" who is a little bit afraid to have to learn a new
> syntax ! : - )
>
> Finally, I just want tell you all how much I appreciate this list.
> This is a very nice and vibrant community. I'm sure that I will learn
> a lot from Stata experts as soon as I start using the software.
>
> Kind regards,
>
> Yves (Province de Québec)
>
> P.S. Sorry for the bad English. I write in English just once in a while.
>
> *
> *   For searches and help try:
> *   http://www.stata.com/help.cgi?search
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> *   http://www.ats.ucla.edu/stat/stata/
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Re: Spss vs Stata

Stas Kolenikov
In reply to this post by Yves Therriault
SPSS, especially these days as it has become the "predictive
analytics" software rather than a statistical package for social
sciences, seems to operate from the viewpoint of "I click here, I
click there, and I drag this into a report -- voila". Stata has
traditionally been oriented at more meditative researchers in academic
settings who are less concerned with flashy presentations, as that's
rarely a selling point of a research paper. Also, SPSS is only good
under Windows, while Stata takes a lot of (well substantiated) pride
in working under all common operating systems.

A number of tools exist to go from Stata output to other external
programs, such MS Word/Excel, on one hand, and LaTeX, on the other. I
am certainly in the latter camp, and I get everything I need from
-estout- and low level -file- commands with which I write my results.
Of course there are times when I have to do some copy/paste, and
that's less convenient than from SPSS. More MS-specific tools are
available with -outreg-, -xmltab-, and probably five or so others.

On Sun, Aug 1, 2010 at 7:04 PM, Yves Therriault <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Dear Stata users,
>
> I've been using SPSS for 20 years. For the time being, I still use a
> six years old version of SPSS (12.01). For many reasons, I told my
> organisation that I would rather purchasing one licence of Stata
> instead of upgrading to the newest release of SPSS (18.0).
>
> A few months ago, I've asked former SPSS users to write about their
> experience with Stata. Generally, people who have decided to switch
> from SPSS to Stata aren't looking back.
>
> In order to learn the basics of Stata more easily when the software is
> installed on my computer, I bought 3 introductory books : A Gentle
> Introduction to Stata ; An Introduction to Stata for Health
> Researchers and, finally Data Analysis Using Stata.
>
> I'm interested to hear from those who made the switch to Stata and
> particularly about the lurning curve regarding the management of Stata
> output. Generally, Stata seems to be far more superior to SPSS in many
> ways. But, in my humble opinion, Stata is currently far behind SPSS
> concerning how it displays its output. I'm aware that a lot of
> routines have been written by Stata users to customize outputs though.
>
> Just in case Stata programmers were monitoring this list, I would be
> very pleased if the company decided to "improve" the output display in
> a future release. Perhaps, another possible feature would gave the
> user the choice between a "standard" Stata output and a Spss-like
> output.

--
Stas Kolenikov, also found at http://stas.kolenikov.name
Small print: I use this email account for mailing lists only.
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Re: Spss vs Stata

E. Paul Wileyto
My two cents.  Graphics is the only bad aspect of Stata, but SPSS is
almost as rudimentary in graphics.  If you want publication quality
graphics quickly, the only package to consider is SigmaPlot.  I do
analysis in Stata, quickly collapse and reshape data for graphs, and
copy the reshaped data into SigmaPlot.  Excel cannot match any of
SigmaPlot's capabilities, and it exports to EPS, PDF, or JPG.  Also, you
can copy & paste figures without background directly to powerpoint for a
nice colored background.

Paul

On 8/2/2010 12:14 AM, Stas Kolenikov wrote:

> SPSS, especially these days as it has become the "predictive
> analytics" software rather than a statistical package for social
> sciences, seems to operate from the viewpoint of "I click here, I
> click there, and I drag this into a report -- voila". Stata has
> traditionally been oriented at more meditative researchers in academic
> settings who are less concerned with flashy presentations, as that's
> rarely a selling point of a research paper. Also, SPSS is only good
> under Windows, while Stata takes a lot of (well substantiated) pride
> in working under all common operating systems.
>
> A number of tools exist to go from Stata output to other external
> programs, such MS Word/Excel, on one hand, and LaTeX, on the other. I
> am certainly in the latter camp, and I get everything I need from
> -estout- and low level -file- commands with which I write my results.
> Of course there are times when I have to do some copy/paste, and
> that's less convenient than from SPSS. More MS-specific tools are
> available with -outreg-, -xmltab-, and probably five or so others.
>
> On Sun, Aug 1, 2010 at 7:04 PM, Yves Therriault<[hidden email]>  wrote:
>    
>> Dear Stata users,
>>
>> I've been using SPSS for 20 years. For the time being, I still use a
>> six years old version of SPSS (12.01). For many reasons, I told my
>> organisation that I would rather purchasing one licence of Stata
>> instead of upgrading to the newest release of SPSS (18.0).
>>
>> A few months ago, I've asked former SPSS users to write about their
>> experience with Stata. Generally, people who have decided to switch
>> from SPSS to Stata aren't looking back.
>>
>> In order to learn the basics of Stata more easily when the software is
>> installed on my computer, I bought 3 introductory books : A Gentle
>> Introduction to Stata ; An Introduction to Stata for Health
>> Researchers and, finally Data Analysis Using Stata.
>>
>> I'm interested to hear from those who made the switch to Stata and
>> particularly about the lurning curve regarding the management of Stata
>> output. Generally, Stata seems to be far more superior to SPSS in many
>> ways. But, in my humble opinion, Stata is currently far behind SPSS
>> concerning how it displays its output. I'm aware that a lot of
>> routines have been written by Stata users to customize outputs though.
>>
>> Just in case Stata programmers were monitoring this list, I would be
>> very pleased if the company decided to "improve" the output display in
>> a future release. Perhaps, another possible feature would gave the
>> user the choice between a "standard" Stata output and a Spss-like
>> output.
>>      
>    

--
E. Paul Wileyto, Ph.D.
Assistant Professor of Biostatistics
Tobacco Use Research Center
School of Medicine, U. of Pennsylvania
3535 Market Street, Suite 4100
Philadelphia, PA  19104-3309

215-746-7147
Fax: 215-746-7140
[hidden email]

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Re: Spss vs Stata

Joseph McDonnell
In reply to this post by Yves Therriault
Yves

I can sympathise. I too used SPSS for many years (along with GLIM,
BMDP, Genstat, Minitab and a few others). I wouldn't go back if you
paid me.

By coincidence, my last version of SPSS was also 12. So I don't like
to criticise it in its current form. I agree the output format is
pretty, but I never once imported a SPSS table into a Word document
that was "ready for publication". I always constructed my tables in
Word itself. So, I'm not convinced that that aspect of it is a great
advantage.

Welcome to the list. I hope you have great pleasure with Stata.

Cheers

Joseph

On Mon, Aug 2, 2010 at 9:34 AM, Yves Therriault <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Dear Stata users,
>
> I've been using SPSS for 20 years. For the time being, I still use a
> six years old version of SPSS (12.01). For many reasons, I told my
> organisation that I would rather purchasing one licence of Stata
> instead of upgrading to the newest release of SPSS (18.0).
>
> A few months ago, I've asked former SPSS users to write about their
> experience with Stata. Generally, people who have decided to switch
> from SPSS to Stata aren't looking back.
>
> In order to learn the basics of Stata more easily when the software is
> installed on my computer, I bought 3 introductory books : A Gentle
> Introduction to Stata ; An Introduction to Stata for Health
> Researchers and, finally Data Analysis Using Stata.
>
> I'm interested to hear from those who made the switch to Stata and
> particularly about the lurning curve regarding the management of Stata
> output. Generally, Stata seems to be far more superior to SPSS in many
> ways. But, in my humble opinion, Stata is currently far behind SPSS
> concerning how it displays its output. I'm aware that a lot of
> routines have been written by Stata users to customize outputs though.
>
> Just in case Stata programmers were monitoring this list, I would be
> very pleased if the company decided to "improve" the output display in
> a future release. Perhaps, another possible feature would gave the
> user the choice between a "standard" Stata output and a Spss-like
> output.
>
> Of course, I don't intent to start a controversy here.  Maybe I'm just
> an "old SPSS user" who is a little bit afraid to have to learn a new
> syntax ! : - )
>
> Finally, I just want tell you all how much I appreciate this list.
> This is a very nice and vibrant community. I'm sure that I will learn
> a lot from Stata experts as soon as I start using the software.
>
> Kind regards,
>
> Yves (Province de Québec)
>
> P.S. Sorry for the bad English. I write in English just once in a while.
>
> *
> *   For searches and help try:
> *   http://www.stata.com/help.cgi?search
> *   http://www.stata.com/support/statalist/faq
> *   http://www.ats.ucla.edu/stat/stata/
>

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Re: Spss vs Stata

Maarten buis
In reply to this post by E. Paul Wileyto
--- On Mon, 2/8/10, E. Paul Wileyto wrote:
> My two cents.  Graphics is the
> only bad aspect of Stata, but SPSS is almost as rudimentary
> in graphics.  If you want publication quality graphics
> quickly, the only package to consider is SigmaPlot. 

This surprises me. I just finished my dissertation, and did
almost all my graphs in Stata. I considered it flexible and
able to produce every graph I wanted in a reproducable way.
I guess I got used to the way Stata works, and thus I am
less likely to see disadvantages. Can you elobarate on what
can be done with SigmaPlot that can't be done in Stata (or
is harder in Stata)?

-- Maarten

--------------------------
Maarten L. Buis
Institut fuer Soziologie
Universitaet Tuebingen
Wilhelmstrasse 36
72074 Tuebingen
Germany

http://www.maartenbuis.nl
--------------------------


     

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AW: st: Spss vs Stata

Martin Weiss-5

<>


To echo Maarten`s sentiment, I just finished my PhD as well, and have never
wanted to stray from Stata to do beautiful graphs. Then again, I did not
need 3D graphs...



HTH
Martin

-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] Im Auftrag von Maarten buis
Gesendet: Montag, 2. August 2010 10:50
An: [hidden email]
Betreff: Re: st: Spss vs Stata

--- On Mon, 2/8/10, E. Paul Wileyto wrote:
> My two cents.  Graphics is the
> only bad aspect of Stata, but SPSS is almost as rudimentary
> in graphics.  If you want publication quality graphics
> quickly, the only package to consider is SigmaPlot. 

This surprises me. I just finished my dissertation, and did
almost all my graphs in Stata. I considered it flexible and
able to produce every graph I wanted in a reproducable way.
I guess I got used to the way Stata works, and thus I am
less likely to see disadvantages. Can you elobarate on what
can be done with SigmaPlot that can't be done in Stata (or
is harder in Stata)?

-- Maarten

--------------------------
Maarten L. Buis
Institut fuer Soziologie
Universitaet Tuebingen
Wilhelmstrasse 36
72074 Tuebingen
Germany

http://www.maartenbuis.nl
--------------------------


     

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Re: Spss vs Stata

SCHOUMAKER Bruno
In reply to this post by Yves Therriault
I still have to use SPSS for my teaching - but I am working hard to
convince a sufficient number of colleagues to switch to Stata.
Incidentally, I started using Stata when doing my postdoc in Montreal :-)

SPSS is is also available in French, which is thought by some people in
French speaking places (like here) to be an advantage over SPSS.
However, the translation is sometimes so weird in the latest SPSS
versions that I personnally consider it to be an disadvantage.

I agree SPSS can produces nice tables, but with some user-written
packages and some investments in programming, I find Stata much more
powerful even for tables.

Best,

Bon apprentissage de Stata...

Bruno

Le 2/08/2010 2:04, Yves Therriault a écrit :

> Dear Stata users,
>
> I've been using SPSS for 20 years. For the time being, I still use a
> six years old version of SPSS (12.01). For many reasons, I told my
> organisation that I would rather purchasing one licence of Stata
> instead of upgrading to the newest release of SPSS (18.0).
>
> A few months ago, I've asked former SPSS users to write about their
> experience with Stata. Generally, people who have decided to switch
> from SPSS to Stata aren't looking back.
>
> In order to learn the basics of Stata more easily when the software is
> installed on my computer, I bought 3 introductory books : A Gentle
> Introduction to Stata ; An Introduction to Stata for Health
> Researchers and, finally Data Analysis Using Stata.
>
> I'm interested to hear from those who made the switch to Stata and
> particularly about the lurning curve regarding the management of Stata
> output. Generally, Stata seems to be far more superior to SPSS in many
> ways. But, in my humble opinion, Stata is currently far behind SPSS
> concerning how it displays its output. I'm aware that a lot of
> routines have been written by Stata users to customize outputs though.
>
> Just in case Stata programmers were monitoring this list, I would be
> very pleased if the company decided to "improve" the output display in
> a future release. Perhaps, another possible feature would gave the
> user the choice between a "standard" Stata output and a Spss-like
> output.
>
> Of course, I don't intent to start a controversy here.  Maybe I'm just
> an "old SPSS user" who is a little bit afraid to have to learn a new
> syntax ! : - )
>
> Finally, I just want tell you all how much I appreciate this list.
> This is a very nice and vibrant community. I'm sure that I will learn
> a lot from Stata experts as soon as I start using the software.
>
> Kind regards,
>
> Yves (Province de Québec)
>
> P.S. Sorry for the bad English. I write in English just once in a while.
>
> *
> *   For searches and help try:
> *   http://www.stata.com/help.cgi?search
> *   http://www.stata.com/support/statalist/faq
> *   http://www.ats.ucla.edu/stat/stata/
>    


--
Bruno SCHOUMAKER

Centre de recherche en démographie et sociétés
Université catholique de Louvain
1-17 PLace Montesquieu
1348 Louvain-la-Neuve
BELGIUM

Tel. +32 10 474136
Fax. +32 10 472952

[hidden email]
www.uclouvain.be/demo

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Spss vs Stata

Airey, David C
In reply to this post by Yves Therriault
.

For Stata results you can copy as text, smart text, or as a picture. For integrating figures, text, and results window output, I use LaTeX. The SSC package "texdoc" works well for short and medium length documents, and the LaTeX package beamer produces nice slides. I produced summer short course materials using latex/beamer and texdoc (3 day temp url: https://files.me.com/dairey/c33i8j).

As you say there are several SSC packages for professional tabular output, like estout and outreg2. There was a recent Stata users group talk I did not see that is relevant here: <http://www.stata.com/meeting/boston10/abstracts.html>, that points to the validity of your complaint regarding official Stata. But Gallup's talk and several others like it at other meetings may suggest the approach to complex output is just different in Stata.



> Dear Stata users,
>
> I've been using SPSS for 20 years. For the time being, I still use a
> six years old version of SPSS (12.01). For many reasons, I told my
> organisation that I would rather purchasing one licence of Stata
> instead of upgrading to the newest release of SPSS (18.0).
>
> A few months ago, I've asked former SPSS users to write about their
> experience with Stata. Generally, people who have decided to switch
> from SPSS to Stata aren't looking back.
>
> In order to learn the basics of Stata more easily when the software is
> installed on my computer, I bought 3 introductory books : A Gentle
> Introduction to Stata ; An Introduction to Stata for Health
> Researchers and, finally Data Analysis Using Stata.
>
> I'm interested to hear from those who made the switch to Stata and
> particularly about the lurning curve regarding the management of Stata
> output. Generally, Stata seems to be far more superior to SPSS in many
> ways. But, in my humble opinion, Stata is currently far behind SPSS
> concerning how it displays its output. I'm aware that a lot of
> routines have been written by Stata users to customize outputs though.
>
> Just in case Stata programmers were monitoring this list, I would be
> very pleased if the company decided to "improve" the output display in
> a future release. Perhaps, another possible feature would gave the
> user the choice between a "standard" Stata output and a Spss-like
> output.
>
> Of course, I don't intent to start a controversy here.  Maybe I'm just
> an "old SPSS user" who is a little bit afraid to have to learn a new
> syntax ! : - )
>
> Finally, I just want tell you all how much I appreciate this list.
> This is a very nice and vibrant community. I'm sure that I will learn
> a lot from Stata experts as soon as I start using the software.
>
> Kind regards,
>
> Yves (Province de Québec)
>
> P.S. Sorry for the bad English. I write in English just once in a while.
>
>


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RE: Spss vs Stata

Ploutz-Snyder, Robert (JSC-SK)[USRA]
In reply to this post by E. Paul Wileyto
I will chime in also, as an SPSS user of 20 years...now converted almost entirely to Stata (except for ANOVA).

While I will agree that SPSS has pretty output, I am also reminded of the old output (thinking SPSS version 4 ish), and the "wow" factor that we SPSS users experienced when they went to the "new" format that was much prettier.  Yes, it was nice looking, but those of us who made that transition from SPSS output that looked at lot like today's Stata to the now pretty version also remember the cost.  It wasn't severe then, but run practically any routine in SPSS today and it takes much longer to produce that pretty output.   Run something modestly complicated and you might as well go get a cup of coffee.  Try something akin to a 2 layer xtmixed and you may have to let your SPSS sit overnight.  I'm not joking, and I have 64bit whiz-bang machine.   Aside from processing speed, SPSS is a complete memory hog that will crash all but the top-end machines if you are a multi-tasker.  And then, of course, there the $$$ cost.

Yes, SPSS output looks nice.  But even with that nice output it's not publication quality so you STILL end up getting that output to your word processor of choice (or LaTEX) to format for manuscript submission.  Maybe some are willing to dedicate the time to SPSS output modification, but personally I found that more frustrating than a simple copy/paste.

So for my 2-cents (and the Stata monitors), I would hope that Stata would NOT dedicate much effort in making pretty output.  What was and continues to be refreshing to me as a relatively new Stata user is the SPEED that you can get things done.  The syntax language is intuitive and brief (compared to SPSS and SAS), and it runs routines very fast. The output isn't pretty but it gives you what you need.   True, it would be nice to have  better copy/paste functionality going from Stata to Excel or Word, but aside from that, I don't really need all that pretty output from my statistics package.  Let's face it--we don't rely on Excel to do our statistics, so why rely on Stat to do publication quality tables?  

As for graphics, Stata's graphics commands are more difficult to master but the end result is far better than SPSS graphics.  Mike Mitchell's "Visual Guide to Stata Graphics" is a must-have for newbie Stata users, as it gets you up and running quickly for making very nice graphics.  Before long, you can tweak your code to publication quality...

What SPSS still maintains over Stata is better ANOVA routines, particularly Repeated-Measures fixed-factor designs.  Stata treats RM designs a bit strangely, I believe because it seems to "wrap" ANOVA code around Regression methods.  It's non-intuitive and can provide results that aren't typical of RM ANOVA (consider how it uses full-n for fixed-factor RM ANOVA without listwise elimination of subjects who are missing an observation).  I would much prefer to see Stata invest in re-working their ANOVA code and analyses so that it is more consistant with SAS or SPSS methodologies, offers more in terms of assumption testing (ex. Sphericity tests), and is more intuitive.

But pretty output--that's not high on my priority list.  

Rob



-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of E. Paul Wileyto
Sent: Sunday, August 01, 2010 11:37 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: st: Spss vs Stata

My two cents.  Graphics is the only bad aspect of Stata, but SPSS is
almost as rudimentary in graphics.  If you want publication quality
graphics quickly, the only package to consider is SigmaPlot.  I do
analysis in Stata, quickly collapse and reshape data for graphs, and
copy the reshaped data into SigmaPlot.  Excel cannot match any of
SigmaPlot's capabilities, and it exports to EPS, PDF, or JPG.  Also, you
can copy & paste figures without background directly to powerpoint for a
nice colored background.

Paul

On 8/2/2010 12:14 AM, Stas Kolenikov wrote:

> SPSS, especially these days as it has become the "predictive
> analytics" software rather than a statistical package for social
> sciences, seems to operate from the viewpoint of "I click here, I
> click there, and I drag this into a report -- voila". Stata has
> traditionally been oriented at more meditative researchers in academic
> settings who are less concerned with flashy presentations, as that's
> rarely a selling point of a research paper. Also, SPSS is only good
> under Windows, while Stata takes a lot of (well substantiated) pride
> in working under all common operating systems.
>
> A number of tools exist to go from Stata output to other external
> programs, such MS Word/Excel, on one hand, and LaTeX, on the other. I
> am certainly in the latter camp, and I get everything I need from
> -estout- and low level -file- commands with which I write my results.
> Of course there are times when I have to do some copy/paste, and
> that's less convenient than from SPSS. More MS-specific tools are
> available with -outreg-, -xmltab-, and probably five or so others.
>
> On Sun, Aug 1, 2010 at 7:04 PM, Yves Therriault<[hidden email]>  wrote:
>    
>> Dear Stata users,
>>
>> I've been using SPSS for 20 years. For the time being, I still use a
>> six years old version of SPSS (12.01). For many reasons, I told my
>> organisation that I would rather purchasing one licence of Stata
>> instead of upgrading to the newest release of SPSS (18.0).
>>
>> A few months ago, I've asked former SPSS users to write about their
>> experience with Stata. Generally, people who have decided to switch
>> from SPSS to Stata aren't looking back.
>>
>> In order to learn the basics of Stata more easily when the software is
>> installed on my computer, I bought 3 introductory books : A Gentle
>> Introduction to Stata ; An Introduction to Stata for Health
>> Researchers and, finally Data Analysis Using Stata.
>>
>> I'm interested to hear from those who made the switch to Stata and
>> particularly about the lurning curve regarding the management of Stata
>> output. Generally, Stata seems to be far more superior to SPSS in many
>> ways. But, in my humble opinion, Stata is currently far behind SPSS
>> concerning how it displays its output. I'm aware that a lot of
>> routines have been written by Stata users to customize outputs though.
>>
>> Just in case Stata programmers were monitoring this list, I would be
>> very pleased if the company decided to "improve" the output display in
>> a future release. Perhaps, another possible feature would gave the
>> user the choice between a "standard" Stata output and a Spss-like
>> output.
>>      
>    

--
E. Paul Wileyto, Ph.D.
Assistant Professor of Biostatistics
Tobacco Use Research Center
School of Medicine, U. of Pennsylvania
3535 Market Street, Suite 4100
Philadelphia, PA  19104-3309

215-746-7147
Fax: 215-746-7140
[hidden email]

*
*   For searches and help try:
*   http://www.stata.com/help.cgi?search
*   http://www.stata.com/support/statalist/faq
*   http://www.ats.ucla.edu/stat/stata/

*
*   For searches and help try:
*   http://www.stata.com/help.cgi?search
*   http://www.stata.com/support/statalist/faq
*   http://www.ats.ucla.edu/stat/stata/
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AW: st: Spss vs Stata

Martin Weiss-5

<>

" As for graphics, Stata's graphics commands are more difficult to master
but the end result is far better than SPSS graphics.  Mike Mitchell's
"Visual Guide to Stata Graphics" is a must-have for newbie Stata users, as
it gets you up and running quickly for making very nice graphics.  "



The dialog boxes, and in particular the "Submit" button, are really helpful
here. Even dyed-in-the-wool command line users on this list agree that they
are useful in this area. I often find myself pressing the "Submit" button
dozens of times before I am satisfied with the result - any remaining wishes
can be fulfilled via the Graph Editor and its Recorder...



HTH
Martin


-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] Im Auftrag von Ploutz-Snyder,
Robert (JSC-SK)[USRA]
Gesendet: Montag, 2. August 2010 15:46
An: [hidden email]
Betreff: RE: st: Spss vs Stata

I will chime in also, as an SPSS user of 20 years...now converted almost
entirely to Stata (except for ANOVA).

While I will agree that SPSS has pretty output, I am also reminded of the
old output (thinking SPSS version 4 ish), and the "wow" factor that we SPSS
users experienced when they went to the "new" format that was much prettier.
Yes, it was nice looking, but those of us who made that transition from SPSS
output that looked at lot like today's Stata to the now pretty version also
remember the cost.  It wasn't severe then, but run practically any routine
in SPSS today and it takes much longer to produce that pretty output.   Run
something modestly complicated and you might as well go get a cup of coffee.
Try something akin to a 2 layer xtmixed and you may have to let your SPSS
sit overnight.  I'm not joking, and I have 64bit whiz-bang machine.   Aside
from processing speed, SPSS is a complete memory hog that will crash all but
the top-end machines if you are a multi-tasker.  And then, of course, there
the $$$ cost.

Yes, SPSS output looks nice.  But even with that nice output it's not
publication quality so you STILL end up getting that output to your word
processor of choice (or LaTEX) to format for manuscript submission.  Maybe
some are willing to dedicate the time to SPSS output modification, but
personally I found that more frustrating than a simple copy/paste.

So for my 2-cents (and the Stata monitors), I would hope that Stata would
NOT dedicate much effort in making pretty output.  What was and continues to
be refreshing to me as a relatively new Stata user is the SPEED that you can
get things done.  The syntax language is intuitive and brief (compared to
SPSS and SAS), and it runs routines very fast. The output isn't pretty but
it gives you what you need.   True, it would be nice to have  better
copy/paste functionality going from Stata to Excel or Word, but aside from
that, I don't really need all that pretty output from my statistics package.
Let's face it--we don't rely on Excel to do our statistics, so why rely on
Stat to do publication quality tables?  

As for graphics, Stata's graphics commands are more difficult to master but
the end result is far better than SPSS graphics.  Mike Mitchell's "Visual
Guide to Stata Graphics" is a must-have for newbie Stata users, as it gets
you up and running quickly for making very nice graphics.  Before long, you
can tweak your code to publication quality...

What SPSS still maintains over Stata is better ANOVA routines, particularly
Repeated-Measures fixed-factor designs.  Stata treats RM designs a bit
strangely, I believe because it seems to "wrap" ANOVA code around Regression
methods.  It's non-intuitive and can provide results that aren't typical of
RM ANOVA (consider how it uses full-n for fixed-factor RM ANOVA without
listwise elimination of subjects who are missing an observation).  I would
much prefer to see Stata invest in re-working their ANOVA code and analyses
so that it is more consistant with SAS or SPSS methodologies, offers more in
terms of assumption testing (ex. Sphericity tests), and is more intuitive.

But pretty output--that's not high on my priority list.  

Rob



-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of E. Paul Wileyto
Sent: Sunday, August 01, 2010 11:37 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: st: Spss vs Stata

My two cents.  Graphics is the only bad aspect of Stata, but SPSS is
almost as rudimentary in graphics.  If you want publication quality
graphics quickly, the only package to consider is SigmaPlot.  I do
analysis in Stata, quickly collapse and reshape data for graphs, and
copy the reshaped data into SigmaPlot.  Excel cannot match any of
SigmaPlot's capabilities, and it exports to EPS, PDF, or JPG.  Also, you
can copy & paste figures without background directly to powerpoint for a
nice colored background.

Paul

On 8/2/2010 12:14 AM, Stas Kolenikov wrote:

> SPSS, especially these days as it has become the "predictive
> analytics" software rather than a statistical package for social
> sciences, seems to operate from the viewpoint of "I click here, I
> click there, and I drag this into a report -- voila". Stata has
> traditionally been oriented at more meditative researchers in academic
> settings who are less concerned with flashy presentations, as that's
> rarely a selling point of a research paper. Also, SPSS is only good
> under Windows, while Stata takes a lot of (well substantiated) pride
> in working under all common operating systems.
>
> A number of tools exist to go from Stata output to other external
> programs, such MS Word/Excel, on one hand, and LaTeX, on the other. I
> am certainly in the latter camp, and I get everything I need from
> -estout- and low level -file- commands with which I write my results.
> Of course there are times when I have to do some copy/paste, and
> that's less convenient than from SPSS. More MS-specific tools are
> available with -outreg-, -xmltab-, and probably five or so others.
>
> On Sun, Aug 1, 2010 at 7:04 PM, Yves Therriault<[hidden email]>
wrote:

>    
>> Dear Stata users,
>>
>> I've been using SPSS for 20 years. For the time being, I still use a
>> six years old version of SPSS (12.01). For many reasons, I told my
>> organisation that I would rather purchasing one licence of Stata
>> instead of upgrading to the newest release of SPSS (18.0).
>>
>> A few months ago, I've asked former SPSS users to write about their
>> experience with Stata. Generally, people who have decided to switch
>> from SPSS to Stata aren't looking back.
>>
>> In order to learn the basics of Stata more easily when the software is
>> installed on my computer, I bought 3 introductory books : A Gentle
>> Introduction to Stata ; An Introduction to Stata for Health
>> Researchers and, finally Data Analysis Using Stata.
>>
>> I'm interested to hear from those who made the switch to Stata and
>> particularly about the lurning curve regarding the management of Stata
>> output. Generally, Stata seems to be far more superior to SPSS in many
>> ways. But, in my humble opinion, Stata is currently far behind SPSS
>> concerning how it displays its output. I'm aware that a lot of
>> routines have been written by Stata users to customize outputs though.
>>
>> Just in case Stata programmers were monitoring this list, I would be
>> very pleased if the company decided to "improve" the output display in
>> a future release. Perhaps, another possible feature would gave the
>> user the choice between a "standard" Stata output and a Spss-like
>> output.
>>      
>    

--
E. Paul Wileyto, Ph.D.
Assistant Professor of Biostatistics
Tobacco Use Research Center
School of Medicine, U. of Pennsylvania
3535 Market Street, Suite 4100
Philadelphia, PA  19104-3309

215-746-7147
Fax: 215-746-7140
[hidden email]

*
*   For searches and help try:
*   http://www.stata.com/help.cgi?search
*   http://www.stata.com/support/statalist/faq
*   http://www.ats.ucla.edu/stat/stata/

*
*   For searches and help try:
*   http://www.stata.com/help.cgi?search
*   http://www.stata.com/support/statalist/faq
*   http://www.ats.ucla.edu/stat/stata/


*
*   For searches and help try:
*   http://www.stata.com/help.cgi?search
*   http://www.stata.com/support/statalist/faq
*   http://www.ats.ucla.edu/stat/stata/
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AW: st: Spss vs Stata

Kaulisch, Marc
In reply to this post by Yves Therriault
I am more concerned about the flexibility to generate pivot tables than about pretty tables.

My previous example in http://www.stata.com/statalist/archive/2009-11/msg00238.html was:
Table
Rowvar colvar1 colvar2
                1 2 1 2 3
                n C% n C% n C% n C% n C%
1
2
3
Total

In order to avoid weeks of Stata programming etc. we decided to generate those tables in SPSS.

So I don't think that it should be a decision either Stata or SPSS.

Marc

-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] Im Auftrag von Ploutz-Snyder, Robert (JSC-SK)[USRA]
Gesendet: Montag, 2. August 2010 15:46
An: [hidden email]
Betreff: RE: st: Spss vs Stata

I will chime in also, as an SPSS user of 20 years...now converted almost entirely to Stata (except for ANOVA).

While I will agree that SPSS has pretty output, I am also reminded of the old output (thinking SPSS version 4 ish), and the "wow" factor that we SPSS users experienced when they went to the "new" format that was much prettier.  Yes, it was nice looking, but those of us who made that transition from SPSS output that looked at lot like today's Stata to the now pretty version also remember the cost.  It wasn't severe then, but run practically any routine in SPSS today and it takes much longer to produce that pretty output.   Run something modestly complicated and you might as well go get a cup of coffee.  Try something akin to a 2 layer xtmixed and you may have to let your SPSS sit overnight.  I'm not joking, and I have 64bit whiz-bang machine.   Aside from processing speed, SPSS is a complete memory hog that will crash all but the top-end machines if you are a multi-tasker.  And then, of course, there the $$$ cost.

Yes, SPSS output looks nice.  But even with that nice output it's not publication quality so you STILL end up getting that output to your word processor of choice (or LaTEX) to format for manuscript submission.  Maybe some are willing to dedicate the time to SPSS output modification, but personally I found that more frustrating than a simple copy/paste.

So for my 2-cents (and the Stata monitors), I would hope that Stata would NOT dedicate much effort in making pretty output.  What was and continues to be refreshing to me as a relatively new Stata user is the SPEED that you can get things done.  The syntax language is intuitive and brief (compared to SPSS and SAS), and it runs routines very fast. The output isn't pretty but it gives you what you need.   True, it would be nice to have  better copy/paste functionality going from Stata to Excel or Word, but aside from that, I don't really need all that pretty output from my statistics package.  Let's face it--we don't rely on Excel to do our statistics, so why rely on Stat to do publication quality tables?  

As for graphics, Stata's graphics commands are more difficult to master but the end result is far better than SPSS graphics.  Mike Mitchell's "Visual Guide to Stata Graphics" is a must-have for newbie Stata users, as it gets you up and running quickly for making very nice graphics.  Before long, you can tweak your code to publication quality...

What SPSS still maintains over Stata is better ANOVA routines, particularly Repeated-Measures fixed-factor designs.  Stata treats RM designs a bit strangely, I believe because it seems to "wrap" ANOVA code around Regression methods.  It's non-intuitive and can provide results that aren't typical of RM ANOVA (consider how it uses full-n for fixed-factor RM ANOVA without listwise elimination of subjects who are missing an observation).  I would much prefer to see Stata invest in re-working their ANOVA code and analyses so that it is more consistant with SAS or SPSS methodologies, offers more in terms of assumption testing (ex. Sphericity tests), and is more intuitive.

But pretty output--that's not high on my priority list.  

Rob



-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of E. Paul Wileyto
Sent: Sunday, August 01, 2010 11:37 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: st: Spss vs Stata

My two cents.  Graphics is the only bad aspect of Stata, but SPSS is almost as rudimentary in graphics.  If you want publication quality graphics quickly, the only package to consider is SigmaPlot.  I do analysis in Stata, quickly collapse and reshape data for graphs, and copy the reshaped data into SigmaPlot.  Excel cannot match any of SigmaPlot's capabilities, and it exports to EPS, PDF, or JPG.  Also, you can copy & paste figures without background directly to powerpoint for a nice colored background.

Paul

On 8/2/2010 12:14 AM, Stas Kolenikov wrote:

> SPSS, especially these days as it has become the "predictive
> analytics" software rather than a statistical package for social
> sciences, seems to operate from the viewpoint of "I click here, I
> click there, and I drag this into a report -- voila". Stata has
> traditionally been oriented at more meditative researchers in academic
> settings who are less concerned with flashy presentations, as that's
> rarely a selling point of a research paper. Also, SPSS is only good
> under Windows, while Stata takes a lot of (well substantiated) pride
> in working under all common operating systems.
>
> A number of tools exist to go from Stata output to other external
> programs, such MS Word/Excel, on one hand, and LaTeX, on the other. I
> am certainly in the latter camp, and I get everything I need from
> -estout- and low level -file- commands with which I write my results.
> Of course there are times when I have to do some copy/paste, and
> that's less convenient than from SPSS. More MS-specific tools are
> available with -outreg-, -xmltab-, and probably five or so others.
>
> On Sun, Aug 1, 2010 at 7:04 PM, Yves Therriault<[hidden email]>  wrote:
>    
>> Dear Stata users,
>>
>> I've been using SPSS for 20 years. For the time being, I still use a
>> six years old version of SPSS (12.01). For many reasons, I told my
>> organisation that I would rather purchasing one licence of Stata
>> instead of upgrading to the newest release of SPSS (18.0).
>>
>> A few months ago, I've asked former SPSS users to write about their
>> experience with Stata. Generally, people who have decided to switch
>> from SPSS to Stata aren't looking back.
>>
>> In order to learn the basics of Stata more easily when the software
>> is installed on my computer, I bought 3 introductory books : A Gentle
>> Introduction to Stata ; An Introduction to Stata for Health
>> Researchers and, finally Data Analysis Using Stata.
>>
>> I'm interested to hear from those who made the switch to Stata and
>> particularly about the lurning curve regarding the management of
>> Stata output. Generally, Stata seems to be far more superior to SPSS
>> in many ways. But, in my humble opinion, Stata is currently far
>> behind SPSS concerning how it displays its output. I'm aware that a
>> lot of routines have been written by Stata users to customize outputs though.
>>
>> Just in case Stata programmers were monitoring this list, I would be
>> very pleased if the company decided to "improve" the output display
>> in a future release. Perhaps, another possible feature would gave the
>> user the choice between a "standard" Stata output and a Spss-like
>> output.
>>      
>    

--
E. Paul Wileyto, Ph.D.
Assistant Professor of Biostatistics
Tobacco Use Research Center
School of Medicine, U. of Pennsylvania
3535 Market Street, Suite 4100
Philadelphia, PA  19104-3309

215-746-7147
Fax: 215-746-7140
[hidden email]

*
*   For searches and help try:
*   http://www.stata.com/help.cgi?search
*   http://www.stata.com/support/statalist/faq
*   http://www.ats.ucla.edu/stat/stata/

*
*   For searches and help try:
*   http://www.stata.com/help.cgi?search
*   http://www.stata.com/support/statalist/faq
*   http://www.ats.ucla.edu/stat/stata/

*
*   For searches and help try:
*   http://www.stata.com/help.cgi?search
*   http://www.stata.com/support/statalist/faq
*   http://www.ats.ucla.edu/stat/stata/
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RES: st: Spss vs Stata

José Maria Pacheco de Souza
In reply to this post by Ploutz-Snyder, Robert (JSC-SK)[USRA]
I do not have any experience with SPSS, SAS, so I cannot compare. But I do
like graphs in Stata. It is a pleasure to start a graph from scratch and to
add the necessary components, trying, changing, until the final format. I
think  it is good to have fun while working.
José maria

José Maria Pacheco de Souza
Professor Titular, aposentado; Colaborador Sênior
Departamento de Epidemiologia/Faculdade de Saúde Pública/Universidade de São
Paulo
Av. Dr. Arnaldo, 715 - São Paulo, Capital - cep 01246-904
Fones: FSP= (11)3061-7747  Res= (11)3714-2403; (11)3768-8612
www.fsp.usp.br/~jmpsouza

-----Mensagem original-----
De: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] Em nome de Ploutz-Snyder,
Robert (JSC-SK)[USRA]
Enviada em: segunda-feira, 2 de agosto de 2010 10:46
Para: [hidden email]
Assunto: RE: st: Spss vs Stata

I will chime in also, as an SPSS user of 20 years...now converted almost
entirely to Stata (except for ANOVA).

While I will agree that SPSS has pretty output, I am also reminded of the
old output (thinking SPSS version 4 ish), and the "wow" factor that we SPSS
users experienced when they went to the "new" format that was much prettier.
Yes, it was nice looking, but those of us who made that transition from SPSS
output that looked at lot like today's Stata to the now pretty version also
remember the cost.  It wasn't severe then, but run practically any routine
in SPSS today and it takes much longer to produce that pretty output.   Run
something modestly complicated and you might as well go get a cup of coffee.
Try something akin to a 2 layer xtmixed and you may have to let your SPSS
sit overnight.  I'm not joking, and I have 64bit whiz-bang machine.   Aside
from processing speed, SPSS is a complete memory hog that will crash all but
the top-end machines if you are a multi-tasker.  And then, of course, there
the $$$ cost.

Yes, SPSS output looks nice.  But even with that nice output it's not
publication quality so you STILL end up getting that output to your word
processor of choice (or LaTEX) to format for manuscript submission.  Maybe
some are willing to dedicate the time to SPSS output modification, but
personally I found that more frustrating than a simple copy/paste.

So for my 2-cents (and the Stata monitors), I would hope that Stata would
NOT dedicate much effort in making pretty output.  What was and continues to
be refreshing to me as a relatively new Stata user is the SPEED that you can
get things done.  The syntax language is intuitive and brief (compared to
SPSS and SAS), and it runs routines very fast. The output isn't pretty but
it gives you what you need.   True, it would be nice to have  better
copy/paste functionality going from Stata to Excel or Word, but aside from
that, I don't really need all that pretty output from my statistics package.
Let's face it--we don't rely on Excel to do our statistics, so why rely on
Stat to do publication quality tables?  

As for graphics, Stata's graphics commands are more difficult to master but
the end result is far better than SPSS graphics.  Mike Mitchell's "Visual
Guide to Stata Graphics" is a must-have for newbie Stata users, as it gets
you up and running quickly for making very nice graphics.  Before long, you
can tweak your code to publication quality...

What SPSS still maintains over Stata is better ANOVA routines, particularly
Repeated-Measures fixed-factor designs.  Stata treats RM designs a bit
strangely, I believe because it seems to "wrap" ANOVA code around Regression
methods.  It's non-intuitive and can provide results that aren't typical of
RM ANOVA (consider how it uses full-n for fixed-factor RM ANOVA without
listwise elimination of subjects who are missing an observation).  I would
much prefer to see Stata invest in re-working their ANOVA code and analyses
so that it is more consistant with SAS or SPSS methodologies, offers more in
terms of assumption testing (ex. Sphericity tests), and is more intuitive.

But pretty output--that's not high on my priority list.  

Rob



-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of E. Paul Wileyto
Sent: Sunday, August 01, 2010 11:37 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: st: Spss vs Stata

My two cents.  Graphics is the only bad aspect of Stata, but SPSS is
almost as rudimentary in graphics.  If you want publication quality
graphics quickly, the only package to consider is SigmaPlot.  I do
analysis in Stata, quickly collapse and reshape data for graphs, and
copy the reshaped data into SigmaPlot.  Excel cannot match any of
SigmaPlot's capabilities, and it exports to EPS, PDF, or JPG.  Also, you
can copy & paste figures without background directly to powerpoint for a
nice colored background.

Paul

On 8/2/2010 12:14 AM, Stas Kolenikov wrote:

> SPSS, especially these days as it has become the "predictive
> analytics" software rather than a statistical package for social
> sciences, seems to operate from the viewpoint of "I click here, I
> click there, and I drag this into a report -- voila". Stata has
> traditionally been oriented at more meditative researchers in academic
> settings who are less concerned with flashy presentations, as that's
> rarely a selling point of a research paper. Also, SPSS is only good
> under Windows, while Stata takes a lot of (well substantiated) pride
> in working under all common operating systems.
>
> A number of tools exist to go from Stata output to other external
> programs, such MS Word/Excel, on one hand, and LaTeX, on the other. I
> am certainly in the latter camp, and I get everything I need from
> -estout- and low level -file- commands with which I write my results.
> Of course there are times when I have to do some copy/paste, and
> that's less convenient than from SPSS. More MS-specific tools are
> available with -outreg-, -xmltab-, and probably five or so others.
>
> On Sun, Aug 1, 2010 at 7:04 PM, Yves Therriault<[hidden email]>
wrote:

>    
>> Dear Stata users,
>>
>> I've been using SPSS for 20 years. For the time being, I still use a
>> six years old version of SPSS (12.01). For many reasons, I told my
>> organisation that I would rather purchasing one licence of Stata
>> instead of upgrading to the newest release of SPSS (18.0).
>>
>> A few months ago, I've asked former SPSS users to write about their
>> experience with Stata. Generally, people who have decided to switch
>> from SPSS to Stata aren't looking back.
>>
>> In order to learn the basics of Stata more easily when the software is
>> installed on my computer, I bought 3 introductory books : A Gentle
>> Introduction to Stata ; An Introduction to Stata for Health
>> Researchers and, finally Data Analysis Using Stata.
>>
>> I'm interested to hear from those who made the switch to Stata and
>> particularly about the lurning curve regarding the management of Stata
>> output. Generally, Stata seems to be far more superior to SPSS in many
>> ways. But, in my humble opinion, Stata is currently far behind SPSS
>> concerning how it displays its output. I'm aware that a lot of
>> routines have been written by Stata users to customize outputs though.
>>
>> Just in case Stata programmers were monitoring this list, I would be
>> very pleased if the company decided to "improve" the output display in
>> a future release. Perhaps, another possible feature would gave the
>> user the choice between a "standard" Stata output and a Spss-like
>> output.
>>      
>    

--
E. Paul Wileyto, Ph.D.
Assistant Professor of Biostatistics
Tobacco Use Research Center
School of Medicine, U. of Pennsylvania
3535 Market Street, Suite 4100
Philadelphia, PA  19104-3309

215-746-7147
Fax: 215-746-7140
[hidden email]

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Re: Spss vs Stata

nshephard
Administrator
In reply to this post by Kaulisch, Marc
n Mon, Aug 2, 2010 at 2:30 PM, Kaulisch, Marc
<[hidden email]> wrote:
> I am more concerned about the flexibility to generate pivot tables than about pretty tables.

I've no idea what a "pivot table" is, but if the structure below....

> My previous example in http://www.stata.com/statalist/archive/2009-11/msg00238.html was:
> Table
> Rowvar  colvar1 colvar2
>                1       2       1       2       3
>                n C%    n C%    n C%    n C%    n C%
> 1
> 2
> 3
> Total
>
> In order to avoid weeks of Stata programming etc. we decided to generate those tables in SPSS.
>

You could likely achieve it using Ian Watson's -tabout- (available on
SSC) or likely achieve it from first principles using
-contract-/-collapse- in conjunction with some -append-/-merge- and a
small amount of programming.

Although of course I've assumed that you know how to do this sort of
programming, and if not it may well take "weeks", but next time it
will take you far less, and eventually it will become second nature if
you use Stata regularly.

Neil
--
"... no scientific worker has a fixed level of significance at which
from year to year, and in all circumstances, he rejects hypotheses; he
rather gives his mind to each particular case in the light of his
evidence and his ideas." - Sir Ronald A. Fisher (1956)

Email - [hidden email]
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Photos - http://www.flickr.com/photos/slackline/

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Re: Spss vs Stata

Data Analytics Corp.-2
In reply to this post by SCHOUMAKER Bruno
Hi,

I rarely comment to postings, but I have to say something here.  I'm not
an SPSS user.  The most I do with it is receive data in SPSS format from
my clients.  I use a combination of R for its sheer programming power
(plus I came out of Bell Labs so I was raised on the S language) and
Stata for many routines that are just easier to use.  I do many graphs
in Stata often having a dozen graph tabs opened at once plus logit
regressions -- all for my clients who pay the bills.  These people
require results in PowerPoint, not Word or publication-oriented
formats.  They want presentation-ready results, almost 100% in
PowerPoint.  Whether we like it or not, the people who pay the bills
want PowerPoint slides.

Now here's the problem with Stata and many of the comments made about
SPSS and Stata.  The comments mentioned many times that there are ways
to get output into Latex for publication-quality output.  I need it in
PowerPoint!  And I'm sure there are many others like me (does any one
know the breakdown of Stata users between pure academics worried about
publications and consultants/business people?).  How do I take a dozen
graphs and get them into PowerPoint without cutting and pasting each
one, one at a time (as a note, S-Plus has a PowerPoint wizard that is
amazing and R has a package called R2PPT that works fairly well)?  How
do I get logit regression output into a PowerPoint slide without coping,
pasting, and laboriously reformatting so it looks "pretty"?  This is
where users like me need help.  We don't need LaTeX functions (by the
way, I'm also a heavy LaTeX user, preferring this over Word any day),
but rather functions to get things into PowerPoint.  To me, the gist of
the thread on SPSS and Stata is how to get useful output to give to
anyone, and my vote is for functions that are PowerPoint oriented.

I welcome any suggestions on how to get output into PowerPoint easily,
quickly, and with minimum reformatting.

Thanks,

Walt

________________________

Walter R. Paczkowski, Ph.D.
Data Analytics Corp.
44 Hamilton Lane
Plainsboro, NJ 08536
________________________
(V) 609-936-8999
(F) 609-936-3733
[hidden email]
www.dataanalyticscorp.com

_____________________________________________________

On 8/2/2010 5:03 AM, SCHOUMAKER Bruno wrote:

> I still have to use SPSS for my teaching - but I am working hard to
> convince a sufficient number of colleagues to switch to Stata.
> Incidentally, I started using Stata when doing my postdoc in Montreal :-)
>
> SPSS is is also available in French, which is thought by some people
> in French speaking places (like here) to be an advantage over SPSS.
> However, the translation is sometimes so weird in the latest SPSS
> versions that I personnally consider it to be an disadvantage.
>
> I agree SPSS can produces nice tables, but with some user-written
> packages and some investments in programming, I find Stata much more
> powerful even for tables.
>
> Best,
>
> Bon apprentissage de Stata...
>
> Bruno
>
> Le 2/08/2010 2:04, Yves Therriault a écrit :
>> Dear Stata users,
>>
>> I've been using SPSS for 20 years. For the time being, I still use a
>> six years old version of SPSS (12.01). For many reasons, I told my
>> organisation that I would rather purchasing one licence of Stata
>> instead of upgrading to the newest release of SPSS (18.0).
>>
>> A few months ago, I've asked former SPSS users to write about their
>> experience with Stata. Generally, people who have decided to switch
>> from SPSS to Stata aren't looking back.
>>
>> In order to learn the basics of Stata more easily when the software is
>> installed on my computer, I bought 3 introductory books : A Gentle
>> Introduction to Stata ; An Introduction to Stata for Health
>> Researchers and, finally Data Analysis Using Stata.
>>
>> I'm interested to hear from those who made the switch to Stata and
>> particularly about the lurning curve regarding the management of Stata
>> output. Generally, Stata seems to be far more superior to SPSS in many
>> ways. But, in my humble opinion, Stata is currently far behind SPSS
>> concerning how it displays its output. I'm aware that a lot of
>> routines have been written by Stata users to customize outputs though.
>>
>> Just in case Stata programmers were monitoring this list, I would be
>> very pleased if the company decided to "improve" the output display in
>> a future release. Perhaps, another possible feature would gave the
>> user the choice between a "standard" Stata output and a Spss-like
>> output.
>>
>> Of course, I don't intent to start a controversy here.  Maybe I'm just
>> an "old SPSS user" who is a little bit afraid to have to learn a new
>> syntax ! : - )
>>
>> Finally, I just want tell you all how much I appreciate this list.
>> This is a very nice and vibrant community. I'm sure that I will learn
>> a lot from Stata experts as soon as I start using the software.
>>
>> Kind regards,
>>
>> Yves (Province de Québec)
>>
>> P.S. Sorry for the bad English. I write in English just once in a while.
>>
>> *
>> *   For searches and help try:
>> *   http://www.stata.com/help.cgi?search
>> *   http://www.stata.com/support/statalist/faq
>> *   http://www.ats.ucla.edu/stat/stata/
>
>


--
________________________

Walter R. Paczkowski, Ph.D.
Data Analytics Corp.
44 Hamilton Lane
Plainsboro, NJ 08536
________________________
(V) 609-936-8999
(F) 609-936-3733
[hidden email]
www.dataanalyticscorp.com

*
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Re: Spss vs Stata

nshephard
Administrator
On Mon, Aug 2, 2010 at 2:53 PM, Data Analytics Corp.
<[hidden email]> wrote:
> To me, the gist of the thread on SPSS and Stata is how to get
> useful output to give to anyone, and my vote is for functions that are
> PowerPoint oriented.

If you genuinely want to be able to "give to anyone" then you
shouldn't use a closed proprietary format such as PowerPoint!

Its been mentioned already, but you can use LaTeX to produce [PDF]
slides (using Beamer or Prosper packages) so all the talk of LaTeX
functions for formatting output is perfectly applicable, and the
results would be more transferable than PPT.

I suspect the crux is that your clients want PPT's that they can edit,
which is slightly tricky if you provide them with a compiled PDF.

> I welcome any suggestions on how to get output into PowerPoint easily,
> quickly, and with minimum reformatting.

Sorry never use PowerPoint (there is no Linux version from M$, nor do
I use OpenOffice).

Neil



--
"... no scientific worker has a fixed level of significance at which
from year to year, and in all circumstances, he rejects hypotheses; he
rather gives his mind to each particular case in the light of his
evidence and his ideas." - Sir Ronald A. Fisher (1956)

Email - [hidden email]
Website - http://slack.ser.man.ac.uk/
Photos - http://www.flickr.com/photos/slackline/
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Re: Spss vs Stata

Jeph Herrin-4
In reply to this post by Data Analytics Corp.-2
I would like to second the primary point Walt makes. I consider myself
a dedicated and knowledgable Stata user, and I still find it annoyingly
complicated to produce the output my colleagues and clients expect. My
collaborators want a Word file with Word tables so they can mark it up
with comments and edits and send it back to me. To this end I have
even written a suite of do-files which write Stata output in RTF,
so that I can in effect write "Word" files, despite, like Walt, having
a personal preference for TeX. And I do a substantial amount of work
for US government agencies which want Powerpoint reports, period. To
say that Stata can produce nice output in LaTex misses the point of the
original post. I would gladly pay twice as much for a Stata license if
it could produce attractive output I could directly paste into MS
applications.

cheers,
Jeph



On 8/2/2010 10:53 AM, Data Analytics Corp. wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I rarely comment to postings, but I have to say something here. I'm not
> an SPSS user. The most I do with it is receive data in SPSS format from
> my clients. I use a combination of R for its sheer programming power
> (plus I came out of Bell Labs so I was raised on the S language) and
> Stata for many routines that are just easier to use. I do many graphs in
> Stata often having a dozen graph tabs opened at once plus logit
> regressions -- all for my clients who pay the bills. These people
> require results in PowerPoint, not Word or publication-oriented formats.
> They want presentation-ready results, almost 100% in PowerPoint. Whether
> we like it or not, the people who pay the bills want PowerPoint slides.
>
> Now here's the problem with Stata and many of the comments made about
> SPSS and Stata. The comments mentioned many times that there are ways to
> get output into Latex for publication-quality output. I need it in
> PowerPoint! And I'm sure there are many others like me (does any one
> know the breakdown of Stata users between pure academics worried about
> publications and consultants/business people?). How do I take a dozen
> graphs and get them into PowerPoint without cutting and pasting each
> one, one at a time (as a note, S-Plus has a PowerPoint wizard that is
> amazing and R has a package called R2PPT that works fairly well)? How do
> I get logit regression output into a PowerPoint slide without coping,
> pasting, and laboriously reformatting so it looks "pretty"? This is
> where users like me need help. We don't need LaTeX functions (by the
> way, I'm also a heavy LaTeX user, preferring this over Word any day),
> but rather functions to get things into PowerPoint. To me, the gist of
> the thread on SPSS and Stata is how to get useful output to give to
> anyone, and my vote is for functions that are PowerPoint oriented.
>
> I welcome any suggestions on how to get output into PowerPoint easily,
> quickly, and with minimum reformatting.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Walt
>
> ________________________
>
> Walter R. Paczkowski, Ph.D.
> Data Analytics Corp.
> 44 Hamilton Lane
> Plainsboro, NJ 08536
> ________________________
> (V) 609-936-8999
> (F) 609-936-3733
> [hidden email]
> www.dataanalyticscorp.com
>
> _____________________________________________________
>
> On 8/2/2010 5:03 AM, SCHOUMAKER Bruno wrote:
>> I still have to use SPSS for my teaching - but I am working hard to
>> convince a sufficient number of colleagues to switch to Stata.
>> Incidentally, I started using Stata when doing my postdoc in Montreal :-)
>>
>> SPSS is is also available in French, which is thought by some people
>> in French speaking places (like here) to be an advantage over SPSS.
>> However, the translation is sometimes so weird in the latest SPSS
>> versions that I personnally consider it to be an disadvantage.
>>
>> I agree SPSS can produces nice tables, but with some user-written
>> packages and some investments in programming, I find Stata much more
>> powerful even for tables.
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> Bon apprentissage de Stata...
>>
>> Bruno
>>
>> Le 2/08/2010 2:04, Yves Therriault a écrit :
>>> Dear Stata users,
>>>
>>> I've been using SPSS for 20 years. For the time being, I still use a
>>> six years old version of SPSS (12.01). For many reasons, I told my
>>> organisation that I would rather purchasing one licence of Stata
>>> instead of upgrading to the newest release of SPSS (18.0).
>>>
>>> A few months ago, I've asked former SPSS users to write about their
>>> experience with Stata. Generally, people who have decided to switch
>>> from SPSS to Stata aren't looking back.
>>>
>>> In order to learn the basics of Stata more easily when the software is
>>> installed on my computer, I bought 3 introductory books : A Gentle
>>> Introduction to Stata ; An Introduction to Stata for Health
>>> Researchers and, finally Data Analysis Using Stata.
>>>
>>> I'm interested to hear from those who made the switch to Stata and
>>> particularly about the lurning curve regarding the management of Stata
>>> output. Generally, Stata seems to be far more superior to SPSS in many
>>> ways. But, in my humble opinion, Stata is currently far behind SPSS
>>> concerning how it displays its output. I'm aware that a lot of
>>> routines have been written by Stata users to customize outputs though.
>>>
>>> Just in case Stata programmers were monitoring this list, I would be
>>> very pleased if the company decided to "improve" the output display in
>>> a future release. Perhaps, another possible feature would gave the
>>> user the choice between a "standard" Stata output and a Spss-like
>>> output.
>>>
>>> Of course, I don't intent to start a controversy here. Maybe I'm just
>>> an "old SPSS user" who is a little bit afraid to have to learn a new
>>> syntax ! : - )
>>>
>>> Finally, I just want tell you all how much I appreciate this list.
>>> This is a very nice and vibrant community. I'm sure that I will learn
>>> a lot from Stata experts as soon as I start using the software.
>>>
>>> Kind regards,
>>>
>>> Yves (Province de Québec)
>>>
>>> P.S. Sorry for the bad English. I write in English just once in a while.
>>>
>>> *
>>> * For searches and help try:
>>> * http://www.stata.com/help.cgi?search
>>> * http://www.stata.com/support/statalist/faq
>>> * http://www.ats.ucla.edu/stat/stata/
>>
>>
>
>
*
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AW: st: Spss vs Stata

Kaulisch, Marc
In reply to this post by Yves Therriault
Neil,

I might exaggerate with weeks but the table mentioned is done in SPSS within a minute or two. No need for extra software... Back in November when I searched after a solution in Stata I - as unexperienced as I am in Stata - needed one or two days to find out what Stata and user-written programs can do and what not....

On pivot tables: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pivot_table 

In another post David Airey (http://stata.com/statalist/archive/2010-08/msg00042.html) mentioned the Stata Users meeting this year. I quickly looked through the presentations from Gallup and Reif. But I do not grasp their full meaning for me as a potential user yet. May be there will be clarifiying articles in Stata Journal....


Marc

-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] Im Auftrag von Neil Shephard
Gesendet: Montag, 2. August 2010 16:44
An: [hidden email]
Betreff: Re: st: Spss vs Stata

n Mon, Aug 2, 2010 at 2:30 PM, Kaulisch, Marc <[hidden email]> wrote:
> I am more concerned about the flexibility to generate pivot tables than about pretty tables.

I've no idea what a "pivot table" is, but if the structure below....

> My previous example in http://www.stata.com/statalist/archive/2009-11/msg00238.html was:
> Table
> Rowvar  colvar1 colvar2
>                1       2       1       2       3
>                n C%    n C%    n C%    n C%    n C%
> 1
> 2
> 3
> Total
>
> In order to avoid weeks of Stata programming etc. we decided to generate those tables in SPSS.
>

You could likely achieve it using Ian Watson's -tabout- (available on
SSC) or likely achieve it from first principles using
-contract-/-collapse- in conjunction with some -append-/-merge- and a small amount of programming.

Although of course I've assumed that you know how to do this sort of programming, and if not it may well take "weeks", but next time it will take you far less, and eventually it will become second nature if you use Stata regularly.

Neil
--
"... no scientific worker has a fixed level of significance at which from year to year, and in all circumstances, he rejects hypotheses; he rather gives his mind to each particular case in the light of his evidence and his ideas." - Sir Ronald A. Fisher (1956)

Email - [hidden email]
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Re: Spss vs Stata

nshephard
Administrator
On Mon, Aug 2, 2010 at 3:40 PM, Kaulisch, Marc
<[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> I might exaggerate with weeks but the table mentioned is done in SPSS within a minute or two. No need for extra software... Back in November when I searched after a solution in Stata I - as unexperienced as I am in Stata - needed one or two days to find out what Stata and user-written programs can do and what not....

There is indeed a learning curve with Stata (and don't forget that
you've already gone through this learning curve with Excel/SPSS/Pivot
tables), and it can be frustrating to have to invest time to learn how
to do things in a new piece of software when you could fall back on
something you already "know" (or have already learnt!).  But there's
only one way to reach the top (or near it anyway) of the learning
curve, and its not falling back on what you already know (I speak from
experience having first learnt statistics using Stata and then taught
myself R, and made the decision to ditch WYSIWYMG word-processors in
favour of LaTeX)

> On pivot tables: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pivot_table

Sounds like its definitely a case for -tabulate- or -tabstat- if there
is no need to export the results, otherwise -tabout- and
-collapse-/-contract- in conjunction with -append-/-merge- will
achieve this.

> In another post David Airey (http://stata.com/statalist/archive/2010-08/msg00042.html) mentioned the Stata Users meeting this year. I quickly looked through the presentations from Gallup and Reif. But I do not grasp their full meaning for me as a potential user yet. May be there will be clarifiying articles in Stata Journal....

It will come with time.  I still learn new things about Stata all the
time, mainly thanks to being subscribed to Statalist and the great
help that people post (but also from delving in the on-line help and
manuals*).


Neil


* On that front I noticed the various historical anecdotes scattered
through the manuals (v11).  Those that I've come across so far have
been a nice (and brief) distraction from the work at hand.

--
"... no scientific worker has a fixed level of significance at which
from year to year, and in all circumstances, he rejects hypotheses; he
rather gives his mind to each particular case in the light of his
evidence and his ideas." - Sir Ronald A. Fisher (1956)

Email - [hidden email]
Website - http://slack.ser.man.ac.uk/
Photos - http://www.flickr.com/photos/slackline/

*
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Copying Stata graphs/output to PowerPoint

Alan Riley
In reply to this post by Data Analytics Corp.-2
In the midst of a thread regarding issues related to migrating from
SPSS to Stata, Walt Paczkowski ([hidden email]) asked
for advice on working with both Stata and Microsoft PowerPoint:

> ...
>
> Now here's the problem with Stata and many of the comments made about
> SPSS and Stata.  The comments mentioned many times that there are ways
> to get output into Latex for publication-quality output.  I need it in
> PowerPoint!  And I'm sure there are many others like me (does any one
> know the breakdown of Stata users between pure academics worried about
> publications and consultants/business people?).  How do I take a dozen
> graphs and get them into PowerPoint without cutting and pasting each
> one, one at a time (as a note, S-Plus has a PowerPoint wizard that is
> amazing and R has a package called R2PPT that works fairly well)?  How
> do I get logit regression output into a PowerPoint slide without coping,
> pasting, and laboriously reformatting so it looks "pretty"?  This is
> where users like me need help.  We don't need LaTeX functions (by the
> way, I'm also a heavy LaTeX user, preferring this over Word any day),
> but rather functions to get things into PowerPoint.  To me, the gist of
> the thread on SPSS and Stata is how to get useful output to give to
> anyone, and my vote is for functions that are PowerPoint oriented.
>
> I welcome any suggestions on how to get output into PowerPoint easily,
> quickly, and with minimum reformatting.


Walt asked two specific questions for which the following tips may
be useful.  Note that I am using PowerPoint 2007, so menu choices
may be slightly different in other versions of PowerPoint.

   Q1) How can multiple Stata graphs be imported to PowerPoint without
       copying/pasting each one?

   A1) First, export the Stata graphs as .wmf or .emf files.  For example,

           . sysuse auto

           . scatter mpg weight
           . graph export g1.wmf

           . scatter price mpg gear_ratio
           . graph export g2.wmf

       Then, on the Insert tab of PowerPoint's ribbon bar, select
       Photo Album--New Photo Album... from the Illustration section.
       This dialog box in PowerPoint allows you to select multiple
       graphs at once, with many options for placing them on multiple
       slides, including space for titles, and so on.


   Q2) How can regression output be pasted into PowerPoint without
       the need to reformat it?

   A2) I am assuming Walt wants the output to appear in PowerPoint
       exactly as it appears in Stata.  In this case, in Stata, he
       should highlight the output he wishes to copy, then pull
       down Edit and select Copy as Picture.  He can then paste
       the output into Word, and it will look exactly as it did
       in Stata.

       Copy as Picture creates a metafile of the Stata output drawn
       exactly as Stata draws it.  Because it is a metafile, the
       output can even be resized within PowerPoint and still look
       good.

       The same thing works when using Word or any other program
       which allows metafiles to be pasted into it.
     

Alan
[hidden email]

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12